1 00:00:00,140 --> 00:00:02,280 (Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) I know I've been talking a lot about 2 00:00:02,280 --> 00:00:05,000 grief lately, but there's a good reason for 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:05,460 that. 4 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:10,540 And the truth is, the reason is because 5 00:00:10,540 --> 00:00:13,040 we don't talk about grief enough. 6 00:00:13,300 --> 00:00:16,200 And when we do, we tend to silo 7 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,840 it into very specific types of grief and 8 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,220 very specific forms of grief that match certain 9 00:00:23,220 --> 00:00:23,660 narratives. 10 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,400 And the truth is, grief is far broader 11 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,720 and far more common in our lived experience 12 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:33,540 than we'd like to think it is. 13 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:35,960 And grief can come from a lot of 14 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:36,820 different things. 15 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,720 So in this episode of Feathermane Soul Wisdom, 16 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,900 I thought I would dive into the definition 17 00:00:42,900 --> 00:00:46,080 of grief, some grief that we don't talk 18 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,020 about very often, and how that connects with 19 00:00:49,020 --> 00:00:51,560 my work for wild spirit storytelling. 20 00:00:52,580 --> 00:00:55,840 You're listening to Feathermane Soul Wisdom, a podcast 21 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,720 for those looking to rediscover their wild spirit 22 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,260 in spite of life's challenges. 23 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:02,960 If you're living with a chronic illness or 24 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,720 neurodivergent or consider yourself disabled, and you're looking 25 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,220 to connect with your own inner untamed essence, 26 00:01:09,580 --> 00:01:11,220 then this show is for you. 27 00:01:11,740 --> 00:01:14,640 Your host is Kit Kaelstoe, Wild Spirit Storyteller. 28 00:01:15,020 --> 00:01:15,820 Thanks for listening. 29 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,520 And now on to the episode. 30 00:01:19,570 --> 00:01:22,910 Hello, I'm your host Kit Kaelstoe, and this 31 00:01:22,910 --> 00:01:25,630 is the Feathermane Soul Wisdom show on the 32 00:01:25,630 --> 00:01:27,490 Muse Charmer radio network. 33 00:01:27,990 --> 00:01:31,090 I encourage you to wherever you're hearing my 34 00:01:31,090 --> 00:01:33,810 voice to please like and subscribe, leave a 35 00:01:33,810 --> 00:01:36,810 comment if you like this episode, and do 36 00:01:36,810 --> 00:01:41,410 visit feathermanesoul.com slash podcast to find out 37 00:01:41,410 --> 00:01:43,990 how you can support this show and my 38 00:01:43,990 --> 00:01:44,590 efforts. 39 00:01:45,530 --> 00:01:47,550 So today we're going to be talking about 40 00:01:47,550 --> 00:01:50,670 grief, the different forms of grief, how that 41 00:01:50,670 --> 00:01:52,510 grief does and does not show up in 42 00:01:52,510 --> 00:01:56,750 our conversation, and how does this grief connect 43 00:01:56,750 --> 00:01:59,690 with my work as a grief pathfinder, but 44 00:01:59,690 --> 00:02:02,830 also with wild spirit storytelling, because I believe 45 00:02:02,830 --> 00:02:05,150 the two things go hand in hand. 46 00:02:05,810 --> 00:02:08,070 I want to start, as I often do, 47 00:02:08,310 --> 00:02:10,050 with some definitions. 48 00:02:10,850 --> 00:02:15,350 So looking at the Merriam-Webster dictionary, when 49 00:02:15,350 --> 00:02:18,730 I look up the word grief, the definition 50 00:02:18,730 --> 00:02:23,310 is a deep and poignant distress caused by 51 00:02:23,310 --> 00:02:25,230 or as if by bereavement. 52 00:02:25,790 --> 00:02:27,570 And I want us to kind of put 53 00:02:27,570 --> 00:02:31,970 a pin in that because bereavement is one 54 00:02:31,970 --> 00:02:36,190 of the very commonly discussed sources of grief, 55 00:02:36,190 --> 00:02:40,190 but it's only discussed in the terms of 56 00:02:40,190 --> 00:02:43,150 death, death or loss. 57 00:02:43,630 --> 00:02:46,210 And there's many other ways to be bereaved 58 00:02:46,210 --> 00:02:47,550 as we're going to discuss. 59 00:02:48,130 --> 00:02:52,190 The flip side of that is a cause 60 00:02:52,190 --> 00:02:53,250 of such suffering. 61 00:02:53,610 --> 00:02:56,490 So the definition gives the example of life's 62 00:02:56,490 --> 00:02:57,670 joys and griefs. 63 00:02:58,650 --> 00:03:00,730 And so we could look at grief as 64 00:03:00,730 --> 00:03:02,730 anything that causes suffering. 65 00:03:03,570 --> 00:03:05,870 That broadens our window of grief. 66 00:03:05,990 --> 00:03:08,090 That broadens our definition. 67 00:03:08,910 --> 00:03:12,790 And I think that gets us closer to 68 00:03:12,790 --> 00:03:16,270 what we look at when we talk about 69 00:03:16,270 --> 00:03:18,790 some of the other forms of grief that 70 00:03:18,790 --> 00:03:21,050 don't get discussed so often. 71 00:03:22,450 --> 00:03:28,750 The other definitions are more troublesome or annoyance, 72 00:03:28,910 --> 00:03:31,250 a playful criticism like getting grief from your 73 00:03:31,250 --> 00:03:35,470 friends, a disaster, a mishap or a misadventure. 74 00:03:36,290 --> 00:03:40,050 And those I just don't feel really get 75 00:03:40,050 --> 00:03:43,070 to the heart of the real grief work 76 00:03:43,070 --> 00:03:46,190 that is at the heart of our lived 77 00:03:46,190 --> 00:03:50,130 experience as neurodivergent people, of living as chronically 78 00:03:50,130 --> 00:03:54,830 ill or disabled, or of being queer in 79 00:03:54,830 --> 00:03:58,050 this society, or even the grief of having 80 00:03:58,050 --> 00:04:00,390 a food allergy or a food intolerance or 81 00:04:00,390 --> 00:04:01,450 even climate grief. 82 00:04:02,150 --> 00:04:04,090 So I've given you a little sneak peek 83 00:04:04,090 --> 00:04:05,550 there about what we're going to be talking 84 00:04:05,550 --> 00:04:06,050 about. 85 00:04:06,610 --> 00:04:11,110 But when it comes to grief, I think 86 00:04:11,110 --> 00:04:15,769 on one hand, most psychology papers, most definitions 87 00:04:16,750 --> 00:04:19,410 really agree that grief is a deep, intense 88 00:04:19,410 --> 00:04:21,310 sadness or emotional distress. 89 00:04:22,210 --> 00:04:24,370 It's not a pleasant emotion. 90 00:04:25,110 --> 00:04:28,570 It is a sadness or distress. 91 00:04:28,910 --> 00:04:32,850 But what isn't discussed, except in the abstract, 92 00:04:32,850 --> 00:04:37,130 is that in order to grieve something, we 93 00:04:37,130 --> 00:04:40,430 have to have loved or appreciated something or 94 00:04:40,430 --> 00:04:40,930 someone. 95 00:04:41,730 --> 00:04:43,330 And there's a flip side there. 96 00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:45,410 There's a almost a yin and a yang 97 00:04:45,410 --> 00:04:48,490 or a kind of a wheel of fortune. 98 00:04:48,490 --> 00:04:49,650 We love, we grieve. 99 00:04:49,770 --> 00:04:50,870 We love, we grieve. 100 00:04:51,910 --> 00:04:54,650 That exists in our lives. 101 00:04:55,130 --> 00:04:57,110 Now, to be fair, a lot of the 102 00:04:57,110 --> 00:05:00,530 psychology comments, a lot of psychology papers do 103 00:05:00,530 --> 00:05:02,890 say that grief happens when you lose someone 104 00:05:02,890 --> 00:05:04,630 or something important to you. 105 00:05:04,910 --> 00:05:08,090 But the examples that they give are the 106 00:05:08,090 --> 00:05:11,170 death of a loved one, a divorce, a 107 00:05:11,170 --> 00:05:14,350 job loss, or a major life change. 108 00:05:14,470 --> 00:05:17,510 Now, the one definition that I happen to 109 00:05:17,510 --> 00:05:20,470 be looking at also mentions a health change. 110 00:05:21,410 --> 00:05:24,210 And so that, again, gets us closer to 111 00:05:24,210 --> 00:05:27,310 the type of grief work that I work 112 00:05:27,310 --> 00:05:27,770 with. 113 00:05:28,170 --> 00:05:32,210 But grief, at least in this context or 114 00:05:32,210 --> 00:05:34,770 the context of a lot of psychology and 115 00:05:34,770 --> 00:05:38,750 a lot of self-help documents, there is 116 00:05:38,750 --> 00:05:43,230 an assumption there, whether spoken or unspoken, that 117 00:05:43,230 --> 00:05:45,030 grief goes away after a while. 118 00:05:46,030 --> 00:05:49,590 There is an assumption that grief can be 119 00:05:49,590 --> 00:05:50,190 fixed. 120 00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:52,630 That much like when you get that paper 121 00:05:52,630 --> 00:05:57,050 cut or your cat accidentally scratches you and 122 00:05:57,050 --> 00:05:58,110 you think, oh, I need to put a 123 00:05:58,110 --> 00:06:01,110 band-aid on that, you know, some period 124 00:06:01,110 --> 00:06:03,810 of time later, obviously for a minor wound 125 00:06:03,810 --> 00:06:05,290 like that, it's a few days. 126 00:06:05,770 --> 00:06:08,910 Grief can take much longer to kind of 127 00:06:08,910 --> 00:06:12,830 be incorporated into your life that, you know, 128 00:06:12,870 --> 00:06:13,610 it goes away. 129 00:06:14,630 --> 00:06:16,090 And I feel like that that's a very 130 00:06:16,090 --> 00:06:19,670 common misconception about grief and that really colors 131 00:06:19,670 --> 00:06:22,070 our conversation about grief. 132 00:06:23,610 --> 00:06:26,230 Grief does not completely go away. 133 00:06:27,070 --> 00:06:29,450 What happens is we learn to live with 134 00:06:29,450 --> 00:06:29,910 the grief. 135 00:06:30,050 --> 00:06:31,770 We learn to live with the loss. 136 00:06:32,050 --> 00:06:34,550 We start to look at what does our 137 00:06:34,550 --> 00:06:37,950 life look like now that we have experienced 138 00:06:37,950 --> 00:06:40,750 this loss or that we are experiencing this 139 00:06:40,750 --> 00:06:41,230 loss. 140 00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:45,110 Because anticipatory grief, such as when a pet 141 00:06:45,110 --> 00:06:47,770 or a loved one is in a hospice 142 00:06:47,770 --> 00:06:51,230 type situation or you can see that somebody 143 00:06:51,230 --> 00:06:53,550 is getting older and you know that you're 144 00:06:53,550 --> 00:06:57,110 going to lose them because that's what happens. 145 00:06:57,450 --> 00:07:00,990 You know, we all succumb to death. 146 00:07:01,630 --> 00:07:05,210 And by narrowing grief down to that one 147 00:07:05,210 --> 00:07:08,690 thing, I think in some ways that lessens 148 00:07:08,690 --> 00:07:12,630 grief because grief is a very broad, very 149 00:07:12,630 --> 00:07:14,350 complex emotion. 150 00:07:15,130 --> 00:07:18,450 And grief can happen, you know, for many 151 00:07:18,450 --> 00:07:19,430 different reasons. 152 00:07:19,970 --> 00:07:21,450 Like I said, a lot of the grief 153 00:07:21,450 --> 00:07:26,250 workers that I encounter tend to do so 154 00:07:26,250 --> 00:07:29,370 from the standpoint of you have had this 155 00:07:29,370 --> 00:07:32,290 experience and I can help you not feel 156 00:07:32,290 --> 00:07:33,590 bad about this experience. 157 00:07:34,510 --> 00:07:37,710 So it's very much from an open shut 158 00:07:37,710 --> 00:07:39,210 type situation. 159 00:07:39,430 --> 00:07:40,870 And I know we don't want to hear 160 00:07:40,870 --> 00:07:46,290 that grief does not get resolved, but it's 161 00:07:46,290 --> 00:07:46,650 true. 162 00:07:46,710 --> 00:07:51,150 Because if somebody passes away, I mean, you 163 00:07:51,150 --> 00:07:54,270 know, my great grandparents passed away when I 164 00:07:54,270 --> 00:07:55,730 went in the 90s when I was in 165 00:07:55,730 --> 00:07:56,190 high school. 166 00:07:57,550 --> 00:07:59,330 They have not been a part of my 167 00:07:59,330 --> 00:08:02,410 life for longer than they were a part 168 00:08:02,410 --> 00:08:03,230 of my life. 169 00:08:03,670 --> 00:08:06,570 And yet I still have very fond memories 170 00:08:06,570 --> 00:08:08,570 of visiting their family farm. 171 00:08:09,090 --> 00:08:10,790 I still, you know, I miss them. 172 00:08:11,170 --> 00:08:15,190 I still think about, you know, what, what 173 00:08:15,190 --> 00:08:15,930 would they think? 174 00:08:15,990 --> 00:08:18,110 What kind of conversations would we have, especially 175 00:08:18,110 --> 00:08:21,110 as I have embarked on having a small 176 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:22,970 farm here where we live. 177 00:08:23,810 --> 00:08:27,230 Now, I don't break down and just become 178 00:08:27,230 --> 00:08:29,010 incapacitated with grief. 179 00:08:29,510 --> 00:08:32,049 I don't break down and cry and I'm 180 00:08:32,049 --> 00:08:36,789 unable to function because enough time has passed 181 00:08:36,789 --> 00:08:38,809 that that pain has lessened. 182 00:08:39,289 --> 00:08:41,210 And so while the pain is still with 183 00:08:41,210 --> 00:08:45,430 me, in a sense, I have companioned it. 184 00:08:45,630 --> 00:08:47,170 I've learned to live with it. 185 00:08:47,230 --> 00:08:48,910 I've learned to build my life with this 186 00:08:48,910 --> 00:08:49,650 new reality. 187 00:08:51,070 --> 00:08:56,670 And so that is something that happens with 188 00:08:56,670 --> 00:08:58,870 grief where it doesn't, it's not a light 189 00:08:58,870 --> 00:08:59,110 switch. 190 00:08:59,110 --> 00:09:00,810 It doesn't just turn off and on. 191 00:09:01,650 --> 00:09:04,690 It kind of, it fades. 192 00:09:04,910 --> 00:09:07,690 It fades to the point where we can 193 00:09:07,690 --> 00:09:08,730 carry it easier. 194 00:09:08,870 --> 00:09:11,730 It becomes easier to carry, but it's still 195 00:09:11,730 --> 00:09:12,650 a part with us. 196 00:09:12,690 --> 00:09:14,930 And that's why I think when we look 197 00:09:14,930 --> 00:09:19,610 at grief, especially around like chronic illness, acquired 198 00:09:19,610 --> 00:09:23,330 food intolerances, allergies, even ones that we didn't 199 00:09:23,330 --> 00:09:25,950 acquire as an adult, ones that we've lived 200 00:09:25,950 --> 00:09:26,430 with. 201 00:09:27,250 --> 00:09:30,410 If we think about this grief as a 202 00:09:30,410 --> 00:09:33,490 way to carry things better, a way to 203 00:09:33,490 --> 00:09:36,530 make things easier to carry, I feel like 204 00:09:36,530 --> 00:09:38,890 that's a much more realistic and much more 205 00:09:38,890 --> 00:09:40,330 lived experience of grief. 206 00:09:41,670 --> 00:09:46,390 So the common assumptions about grief are that 207 00:09:46,390 --> 00:09:49,230 grief happens after a death or after a 208 00:09:49,230 --> 00:09:50,470 major life change. 209 00:09:50,990 --> 00:09:53,630 But there are other forms of grief. 210 00:09:53,790 --> 00:09:55,950 And again, holding in our head the thought 211 00:09:55,950 --> 00:09:59,830 that grief comes because we love something or 212 00:09:59,830 --> 00:10:01,050 we love someone. 213 00:10:01,410 --> 00:10:04,370 I think it makes it easier to look 214 00:10:04,370 --> 00:10:07,450 for these other sources of grief in our 215 00:10:07,450 --> 00:10:08,030 lives. 216 00:10:08,430 --> 00:10:12,430 As somebody who is trained in pet loss 217 00:10:12,430 --> 00:10:16,130 and in pet bereavement, one of the forms 218 00:10:16,130 --> 00:10:19,090 of grief that I think that we experience, 219 00:10:19,490 --> 00:10:24,430 even while the individual is still with us, 220 00:10:24,570 --> 00:10:27,110 is there is a grief of not doing 221 00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:27,730 enough. 222 00:10:29,090 --> 00:10:30,330 And let me talk about that just a 223 00:10:30,330 --> 00:10:30,770 little bit. 224 00:10:31,310 --> 00:10:32,850 And I'll try not to get emotional because 225 00:10:32,850 --> 00:10:34,970 I'm actually, this is a grief that's very 226 00:10:34,970 --> 00:10:36,450 near and dear to my heart right now. 227 00:10:37,090 --> 00:10:39,610 So my senior mare will be crossing the 228 00:10:39,610 --> 00:10:41,930 Rainbow Bridge before winter. 229 00:10:42,690 --> 00:10:44,410 She just turned 27. 230 00:10:44,990 --> 00:10:47,170 Her arthritis is getting very bad. 231 00:10:47,570 --> 00:10:49,910 So while the spirit is willing, sadly, her 232 00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:51,110 body is failing her. 233 00:10:51,630 --> 00:10:54,330 And I'm going to make the compassionate decision 234 00:10:54,330 --> 00:10:56,470 to let her pass before winter. 235 00:10:57,750 --> 00:11:01,190 I had big hopes for this summer, for 236 00:11:01,190 --> 00:11:02,590 how we were going to spend our last 237 00:11:02,590 --> 00:11:05,090 time together, for what we were going to 238 00:11:05,090 --> 00:11:05,510 do. 239 00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:07,550 And then I got very sick. 240 00:11:08,530 --> 00:11:12,050 Now, your grief about not doing enough may 241 00:11:12,050 --> 00:11:13,270 not be that dramatic. 242 00:11:14,090 --> 00:11:17,490 But I think especially when we're faced with 243 00:11:17,490 --> 00:11:22,950 a senior companion animal that we cannot have 244 00:11:22,950 --> 00:11:25,930 that conversation with, to make sure that they're 245 00:11:25,930 --> 00:11:27,150 okay with what we're doing. 246 00:11:27,450 --> 00:11:30,890 There is a fear or a worry that 247 00:11:30,890 --> 00:11:32,050 we're not doing enough. 248 00:11:32,250 --> 00:11:34,470 And that lends itself to grief. 249 00:11:35,290 --> 00:11:38,850 We feel regret, we feel remorse, we grieve 250 00:11:38,850 --> 00:11:41,790 because it's a great pain that we're not 251 00:11:41,790 --> 00:11:42,590 doing enough. 252 00:11:42,810 --> 00:11:44,970 But the grief of not doing enough. 253 00:11:45,730 --> 00:11:49,610 I've also seen that in my discussions with 254 00:11:49,610 --> 00:11:52,810 people who are parents, parents worry that they're 255 00:11:52,810 --> 00:11:54,390 not doing enough for their children. 256 00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:58,630 When we talk about the climate or our 257 00:11:58,630 --> 00:12:02,230 political situation, there is grief that we're not 258 00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:03,510 able to do enough. 259 00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:08,810 And like with recycling and conserving energy and 260 00:12:08,810 --> 00:12:10,990 trying to do all the right things to 261 00:12:10,990 --> 00:12:12,150 help save our planet. 262 00:12:13,230 --> 00:12:15,370 And a conversation that my spouse and I 263 00:12:15,370 --> 00:12:18,390 have quite often is, we can do as 264 00:12:18,390 --> 00:12:19,970 much as we can do, but we are 265 00:12:19,970 --> 00:12:21,190 only two people. 266 00:12:22,130 --> 00:12:24,890 Whatever we do will never be as much 267 00:12:24,890 --> 00:12:27,750 as what corporations or governments could do. 268 00:12:28,030 --> 00:12:30,150 So while yes, we need to do what 269 00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:31,110 we can do. 270 00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:34,690 We also need to understand that are not 271 00:12:34,690 --> 00:12:39,750 doing enough, pales very much in comparison to 272 00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:42,190 a company or a government not doing enough 273 00:12:42,190 --> 00:12:43,470 or not doing what it's supposed to be 274 00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:43,790 doing. 275 00:12:45,050 --> 00:12:48,590 So the grief of not doing enough, the 276 00:12:48,590 --> 00:12:51,410 antidote to that a lot of times is 277 00:12:51,410 --> 00:12:54,030 understanding that you're doing the best you can. 278 00:12:54,290 --> 00:12:56,690 And when you do the best you can, 279 00:12:57,410 --> 00:13:02,570 there are no regrets, no remorse, only appreciation 280 00:13:02,570 --> 00:13:04,590 and gratitude for being able to do the 281 00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:05,350 best you can. 282 00:13:05,710 --> 00:13:07,530 And when it comes to like our companion 283 00:13:07,530 --> 00:13:12,270 animals, they for the most part, do not 284 00:13:12,270 --> 00:13:17,590 stress over whether they get the extra fancy 285 00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:19,490 treats or whether they get regular treats. 286 00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:21,930 They just know they're getting treats, they're getting 287 00:13:21,930 --> 00:13:24,250 attention, they're getting love, they're getting affection. 288 00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:28,970 And so the grief of not doing enough 289 00:13:28,970 --> 00:13:32,690 really ties into the grief of us not 290 00:13:32,690 --> 00:13:34,190 feeling like we're enough. 291 00:13:34,430 --> 00:13:37,870 And that often comes from external messages. 292 00:13:39,010 --> 00:13:40,850 And you're going to find that actually, when 293 00:13:40,850 --> 00:13:43,310 we talk about grief, that a lot of 294 00:13:43,310 --> 00:13:47,330 grief that we feel, especially when it's not 295 00:13:47,330 --> 00:13:51,010 related to bereavement or to major life changes, 296 00:13:51,810 --> 00:13:55,870 is that it's coming from external messages and 297 00:13:55,870 --> 00:13:58,190 things that we're told we should do or 298 00:13:58,190 --> 00:13:59,170 we should be. 299 00:14:00,070 --> 00:14:03,210 And because of that, that is why we 300 00:14:03,210 --> 00:14:05,550 feel like we're not doing enough or we're 301 00:14:05,550 --> 00:14:06,650 not good enough. 302 00:14:06,890 --> 00:14:09,510 Or again, you can sense a theme there. 303 00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:16,150 As somebody who is extremely late diagnosed neurodivergent 304 00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:21,250 and who through this summer, and getting some 305 00:14:21,250 --> 00:14:25,510 some answers, like finally has answers for like 306 00:14:25,510 --> 00:14:27,370 decades old health issues. 307 00:14:28,030 --> 00:14:31,550 One thing that I have really faced is 308 00:14:31,550 --> 00:14:32,970 grief for others. 309 00:14:34,270 --> 00:14:40,990 And grief for others comes because we grieve 310 00:14:40,990 --> 00:14:44,350 when other individuals maybe did not have the 311 00:14:44,350 --> 00:14:46,770 chance or the opportunity to get the answers 312 00:14:46,770 --> 00:14:47,850 that we have. 313 00:14:48,330 --> 00:14:52,150 We also have grief for others because they 314 00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:56,390 maybe have lived or did live with a 315 00:14:56,390 --> 00:15:01,070 condition or with a neurotype that they were 316 00:15:01,070 --> 00:15:02,090 not aware of. 317 00:15:02,170 --> 00:15:03,770 And so they did not get the support 318 00:15:03,770 --> 00:15:05,430 and resources that they need. 319 00:15:07,270 --> 00:15:09,610 Grief for others comes from the we love 320 00:15:09,610 --> 00:15:09,990 them. 321 00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:13,170 And so as this has come up for 322 00:15:13,170 --> 00:15:17,490 me, what is, you know, what has come 323 00:15:17,490 --> 00:15:20,850 up is that I love my family members. 324 00:15:21,190 --> 00:15:24,370 I see echoes of what they dealt with, 325 00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:27,290 what health conditions they have, and what I 326 00:15:27,290 --> 00:15:27,930 have. 327 00:15:28,130 --> 00:15:30,550 And I grieve that they did not get 328 00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:32,130 the answers that I have. 329 00:15:33,830 --> 00:15:37,550 And so we grieve for them, because you 330 00:15:37,550 --> 00:15:40,270 imagine how you want better for them, how 331 00:15:40,270 --> 00:15:43,730 much different their lives might have been, if 332 00:15:43,730 --> 00:15:46,050 they had had the answer sooner, or if 333 00:15:46,050 --> 00:15:48,170 they had had the answers at all. 334 00:15:48,850 --> 00:15:51,970 And you think about just the way that 335 00:15:51,970 --> 00:15:55,230 maybe they thought about themselves, or that they 336 00:15:55,230 --> 00:15:56,690 struggled with things. 337 00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:59,310 And you know, we love them. 338 00:15:59,310 --> 00:16:00,690 So we don't want that for them. 339 00:16:00,690 --> 00:16:02,350 We did not want them to struggle. 340 00:16:02,950 --> 00:16:07,010 We did not want them to experience the 341 00:16:07,010 --> 00:16:10,270 pain that they had, because they did not 342 00:16:10,270 --> 00:16:11,130 have answers. 343 00:16:11,470 --> 00:16:14,530 And a lot of times, that grief and 344 00:16:14,530 --> 00:16:20,010 not having answers, simply is because, especially around 345 00:16:20,010 --> 00:16:26,670 like neurodivergent brains, or certain health conditions, that 346 00:16:26,670 --> 00:16:29,050 we just simply didn't have the answers or 347 00:16:29,050 --> 00:16:32,250 the information at that time that we have 348 00:16:32,250 --> 00:16:32,690 now. 349 00:16:33,770 --> 00:16:36,870 And so it's a case where I don't 350 00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:39,910 think that there was a way for them 351 00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:43,250 to experience the knowledge that I have. 352 00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:45,390 But yet we grieve that they didn't, and 353 00:16:45,390 --> 00:16:48,370 we grieve about how that impacted their lives. 354 00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:53,550 That comes kind of hand in hand with 355 00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:55,370 the grief of what if. 356 00:16:56,490 --> 00:17:00,690 The grief of what if, it impacts us 357 00:17:00,690 --> 00:17:02,730 and it impacts other people. 358 00:17:03,150 --> 00:17:06,210 On one hand, the grief of what if 359 00:17:06,210 --> 00:17:08,730 could be considered a thought experiment. 360 00:17:09,670 --> 00:17:12,730 What if I had been diagnosed as a 361 00:17:12,730 --> 00:17:17,869 child as multiply neurodivergent, and received the support 362 00:17:18,349 --> 00:17:21,930 that I definitely needed, but never received? 363 00:17:23,250 --> 00:17:26,609 What if the diagnosis that I had gotten, 364 00:17:26,950 --> 00:17:29,610 and the help that I'm getting now, had 365 00:17:29,610 --> 00:17:30,970 come 10 years earlier? 366 00:17:32,290 --> 00:17:36,150 What if a guidance counselor had sat down 367 00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:38,650 with me, and actually explained a little bit 368 00:17:38,650 --> 00:17:42,730 more about my options, and my interests, and 369 00:17:42,730 --> 00:17:45,070 how that might relate to my college career, 370 00:17:45,530 --> 00:17:47,850 when I was actually, you know, leaving high 371 00:17:47,850 --> 00:17:51,090 school, going into college, rather than figuring these 372 00:17:51,090 --> 00:17:53,250 things out when I was 50 or almost 373 00:17:53,250 --> 00:17:53,650 50. 374 00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:57,630 The what if can be a thought experiment. 375 00:17:58,590 --> 00:18:00,330 And I want to say that it's an 376 00:18:00,330 --> 00:18:01,770 important thought experiment. 377 00:18:02,050 --> 00:18:05,090 There's so many questions that you can play 378 00:18:05,090 --> 00:18:06,830 what if with. 379 00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:09,690 And as an author, I think a lot 380 00:18:09,690 --> 00:18:12,030 of what drives our stories, what drives our 381 00:18:12,030 --> 00:18:15,730 inspiration, is the idea of what if. 382 00:18:16,050 --> 00:18:17,710 That is, you know, Marvel did a whole 383 00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:19,850 series called What If, and then started messing 384 00:18:19,850 --> 00:18:22,350 with their characters, and doing different things with 385 00:18:22,350 --> 00:18:22,650 them. 386 00:18:23,250 --> 00:18:25,370 And some of it was okay, and some 387 00:18:25,370 --> 00:18:27,630 of it was absolutely fascinating, and we wish 388 00:18:27,630 --> 00:18:28,430 they'd done more. 389 00:18:29,210 --> 00:18:32,910 When we look at that, we don't necessarily 390 00:18:32,910 --> 00:18:34,670 see the grief that's there. 391 00:18:35,210 --> 00:18:37,930 But if we allow ourselves to dwell on 392 00:18:37,930 --> 00:18:42,890 it, then we would actually allow ourselves to 393 00:18:42,890 --> 00:18:45,230 experience that grief. 394 00:18:46,390 --> 00:18:50,590 The grief of what if has to do 395 00:18:50,590 --> 00:18:54,010 with mourning a life that did not exist, 396 00:18:54,130 --> 00:18:56,010 but had the potential to exist. 397 00:18:56,450 --> 00:18:59,790 Now, I admit, one way that I try 398 00:18:59,790 --> 00:19:02,250 to kind of abate this grief, or deal 399 00:19:02,250 --> 00:19:05,450 with this grief, is that I would like 400 00:19:05,450 --> 00:19:07,310 to think that there is an alternate universe, 401 00:19:07,650 --> 00:19:10,770 or several of them, where the things that 402 00:19:10,770 --> 00:19:12,990 I didn't get in this life, or the 403 00:19:12,990 --> 00:19:14,690 grief that comes from the what ifs in 404 00:19:14,690 --> 00:19:17,470 this life, actually were resolved. 405 00:19:18,830 --> 00:19:22,650 And that that version of myself got the 406 00:19:22,650 --> 00:19:25,810 support, got the help, and is living an 407 00:19:25,810 --> 00:19:26,670 amazing life. 408 00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:30,790 Now, that doesn't necessarily change my life for 409 00:19:30,790 --> 00:19:31,270 the better. 410 00:19:32,050 --> 00:19:35,650 But it helps me to kind of understand 411 00:19:35,650 --> 00:19:39,530 and believe that everything works out, and that 412 00:19:39,530 --> 00:19:41,150 there's a balance to the universe. 413 00:19:42,330 --> 00:19:45,170 Now, again, when it comes to grief, you 414 00:19:45,170 --> 00:19:49,050 know, things like that can be construed as 415 00:19:49,050 --> 00:19:51,910 a little bit of gaslighting, or toxic positivity, 416 00:19:51,910 --> 00:19:53,370 depending on how it's approached. 417 00:19:53,450 --> 00:19:54,830 It's very helpful for me. 418 00:19:54,970 --> 00:19:57,010 It may not be helpful for you, I 419 00:19:57,010 --> 00:19:58,010 acknowledge that. 420 00:19:59,510 --> 00:20:04,530 The best way to focus on the grief 421 00:20:04,530 --> 00:20:07,270 of what if, is to be in the 422 00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:12,770 moment, to practice mindfulness, and to know that 423 00:20:12,770 --> 00:20:13,990 yesterday is gone. 424 00:20:14,190 --> 00:20:15,770 We can't change yesterday. 425 00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:17,770 We can mourn yesterday. 426 00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:23,250 And that mourning is very, very appropriate, and 427 00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:25,490 can be very, very deep and powerful. 428 00:20:26,570 --> 00:20:30,070 We also can't worry about or mourn for 429 00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:31,750 a future that may never come. 430 00:20:32,930 --> 00:20:35,170 We don't know what tomorrow brings. 431 00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:37,010 I have an idea of what I'm going 432 00:20:37,010 --> 00:20:37,950 to do tomorrow. 433 00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:43,350 But who knows, things could happen and tomorrow 434 00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:44,830 could not go out as planned. 435 00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:46,310 Maybe it's a lot better. 436 00:20:46,790 --> 00:20:47,910 Maybe not so much. 437 00:20:47,970 --> 00:20:49,070 We don't know. 438 00:20:49,930 --> 00:20:53,010 And so by focusing on this moment, what 439 00:20:53,010 --> 00:20:55,150 can I do to support myself in this 440 00:20:55,150 --> 00:20:55,690 moment? 441 00:20:56,250 --> 00:20:58,690 If what part of my what if grief 442 00:20:58,690 --> 00:21:01,970 is not having supports or not having resources, 443 00:21:01,970 --> 00:21:05,150 what can I do to cultivate those things 444 00:21:05,150 --> 00:21:06,090 in this moment? 445 00:21:07,710 --> 00:21:13,130 Not only does that help comfort the past 446 00:21:13,130 --> 00:21:15,310 version of myself that you know, my body 447 00:21:15,310 --> 00:21:19,990 remembers, my mind remembers, that there's a version 448 00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:21,570 or a time of me where I didn't 449 00:21:21,570 --> 00:21:23,790 get something or the what if, you know, 450 00:21:23,810 --> 00:21:24,650 didn't happen. 451 00:21:26,190 --> 00:21:29,450 I can actually actively work to make that 452 00:21:29,450 --> 00:21:29,990 happen. 453 00:21:31,210 --> 00:21:35,170 Yeah, so I think that the what if, 454 00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:39,090 that really reminds us to come back to 455 00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:39,790 the moment. 456 00:21:40,910 --> 00:21:43,830 And after talking about all these different versions 457 00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:46,970 of grief, and the ways that we don't 458 00:21:46,970 --> 00:21:49,230 discuss grief within our culture. 459 00:21:50,350 --> 00:21:52,970 One of the things I really want to 460 00:21:52,970 --> 00:21:59,790 say is that grief often comes from things 461 00:21:59,790 --> 00:22:02,950 outside of ourselves, the loss of a pet, 462 00:22:03,370 --> 00:22:05,810 the loss of a family member, the loss 463 00:22:05,810 --> 00:22:07,950 of a job or an opportunity or the 464 00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:09,230 loss of supports. 465 00:22:10,270 --> 00:22:14,370 And grief takes that external event and brings 466 00:22:14,370 --> 00:22:15,670 it in internal. 467 00:22:16,630 --> 00:22:19,850 We don't feel that grief is like some 468 00:22:19,850 --> 00:22:22,370 nebulous thing floating in front of us or 469 00:22:22,370 --> 00:22:23,430 surrounding us. 470 00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:26,750 We feel that grief deeply in our hearts, 471 00:22:26,910 --> 00:22:28,750 in our souls, in our bodies. 472 00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:32,210 We feel that grief inside of us, those 473 00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:34,230 tears come from inside of us. 474 00:22:34,690 --> 00:22:36,530 Nobody splashes water on our face. 475 00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:37,730 And that's what tears are. 476 00:22:38,230 --> 00:22:41,010 They actually come and are driven by our 477 00:22:41,010 --> 00:22:46,110 embodied life, our embodied experience, our embodied being. 478 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,560 And so the biggest change that I would 479 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,280 love to see, when it comes to discussing 480 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,900 grief, and how we think about grief, is 481 00:22:57,900 --> 00:23:00,360 that we no longer think about grief as 482 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,220 something external that can be fixed or something 483 00:23:03,220 --> 00:23:06,580 superficial that can be fixed or wiped away 484 00:23:06,580 --> 00:23:08,460 or healed or covered over. 485 00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:15,740 Instead, we need to understand grief as something 486 00:23:15,740 --> 00:23:21,200 that is internal, that is embodied, and that 487 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,980 comes from the very core of ourselves, stretches 488 00:23:24,980 --> 00:23:29,380 through our tissues, our cells, our muscles, our 489 00:23:29,380 --> 00:23:35,200 fascia, our skin, our sinews, and fills our 490 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,520 entire being. 491 00:23:36,980 --> 00:23:39,780 And that is how we need to look 492 00:23:39,780 --> 00:23:42,980 at finding our new path forward of telling 493 00:23:42,980 --> 00:23:47,060 our stories of working with grief to bring 494 00:23:47,060 --> 00:23:52,140 that back into a more communal and a 495 00:23:52,140 --> 00:23:53,680 more embodied experience. 496 00:23:55,580 --> 00:23:58,200 I hope this podcast has been helpful. 497 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,760 I've got some other topics on my list. 498 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,680 So I assure you, not every podcast going 499 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,360 forward, we'll be talking about grief. 500 00:24:05,820 --> 00:24:08,020 But I do think it is important that 501 00:24:08,020 --> 00:24:11,120 we have these conversations, and that we work 502 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:12,180 with these conversations. 503 00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:14,660 If you would like to work with me 504 00:24:14,660 --> 00:24:19,720 more on grief, or wild spirit storytelling, or 505 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,320 how you know how to get in touch 506 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,000 with your wild, untamed nature, just if you'd 507 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,480 like to work with me more, I want 508 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,160 you to reach out through feathermanesoul.com. 509 00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,620 Click on the contact link, book a discovery 510 00:24:31,620 --> 00:24:33,360 call, or just send me a quick email. 511 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,580 I also have a newsletter and several free 512 00:24:36,580 --> 00:24:38,000 resources for people. 513 00:24:39,020 --> 00:24:41,320 And you know, the topics of my podcast 514 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,120 going forward, we'll be talking a little bit 515 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:44,640 more about those resources. 516 00:24:45,340 --> 00:24:47,300 Thank you so much for sharing this time 517 00:24:47,300 --> 00:24:47,820 with me. 518 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,860 Thank you so much for listening. 519 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,300 And until next time, the wild in me 520 00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:54,880 sees the wild in you. 521 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,960 You've been listening to the feathermanesoul wisdom podcast 522 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,580 hosted by Kit Kelstoe. 523 00:25:03,980 --> 00:25:07,720 Learn more about feathermanesoul at feathermanesoul.com. 524 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,820 As a wild spirit storyteller, Kit is passionate 525 00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:15,040 about helping those who are neurodivergent, disabled, or 526 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,000 living with chronic illness rediscover their own inner 527 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:18,840 wild spirit. 528 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,260 Visit feathermanesoul.com to receive free gifts or 529 00:25:23,260 --> 00:25:25,120 book a free call with Kit to discuss 530 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:27,440 how wild spirit storytelling can help you. 531 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,240 Music is Running with the Horses by Purple 532 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,000 Planet Music. 533 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,460 This podcast is hosted on the MuseTarmer media 534 00:25:34,460 --> 00:25:35,100 network. 535 00:25:35,620 --> 00:25:39,680 Find out more by visiting feathermanesoul.com slash 536 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,500 so and following the links to the MuseTarmer 537 00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:42,920 network. 538 00:25:43,420 --> 00:25:45,980 Please don't forget to like, subscribe, or follow 539 00:25:45,980 --> 00:25:48,600 wherever you're hearing my voice or tell a 540 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:49,640 friend who may be interested. 541 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:50,460 Thank you.